How to turn Push Notifications into Lead Gen
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Zach Measures: Good morning, everyone thanks for joining us, we are.
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Zach Measures: honored to have the presence of Jim mansfield who's the CEO of notify Ai and notarized very interesting businesses that push and lead generation technology platform.
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Zach Measures: And Jim you and i've known each other for a little while, but for the the audience, is it possible that you can maybe sort of introduce yourself and tell a little bit about your journey, thus far.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah sure thanks for having me.
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Jim Mansfield: My background is i've been in the Ad tech regeneration space for almost 20 years I started.
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Jim Mansfield: In email marketing I get into real early.
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Jim Mansfield: Just just by accident and.
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Jim Mansfield: That started off as a few companies, I started I started a company called by and marketing group right around 2000 to focus on email marketing the company did fairly well.
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Jim Mansfield: and leaving the company after four years, the company was sold after we left after I left I started a company called and tell us.
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Jim Mansfield: Where we did email marketing also and lead generation, the twist was we we went international so we went to the UK first with the company, the company is based in Colorado where, where I was living at the time.
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Jim Mansfield: And we just discovered that we went to the UK for one ad tech and we met a few partners, and we, the business was early on, so we started focusing on UK you know, marketing, which at the time was.
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Jim Mansfield: it's pretty early days, they were doing things differently than they were in the States and the sort of markets weren't connected, so we got a lot of advantage of that the response rates were higher.
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Jim Mansfield: We built a pretty good business based on that we first was in the UK, then we went throughout Europe, and even though it was an American company we focused almost entirely on the UK and Europe, and it was a.
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Jim Mansfield: This is that grew quite quite a fairly large is hundred employees at its peak zach you were there for for a little while and.
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Jim Mansfield: It was sold to zeta global.
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Jim Mansfield: In 2013.
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Jim Mansfield: And you know after that i've done a couple more businesses, I was company called APP this was in mobile APP acquisition.
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Jim Mansfield: company was also sold and now last three years i've been focused on push notifications and.
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Jim Mansfield: With a focus on lead generation, so our company notify Ai we have a push notification platform we work with publishers.
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Jim Mansfield: That own websites, most of them are regeneration advertisers and they use our script to collect users when they come to their landing pages and websites and we help them.
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Jim Mansfield: monetize those users and give them a platform to reengage those users, so we don't we're kind of like a SAS platform we don't sell it.
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Jim Mansfield: A fee basis it's mainly just on a.
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Jim Mansfield: Performance basis on the users, we monetize.
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Jim Mansfield: And we work with some of the big players and.
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Jim Mansfield: and lead generation.
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Jim Mansfield: On point global fluent.
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Jim Mansfield: Some others are people they're using our technology, and you know we're also an advertiser and publisher ourselves and regeneration so we're we're advertising legion and major categories like insurance and loans financial products and.
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Jim Mansfield: that's where we're driving revenue and also collect from users for ourself we've got about 50 million users active users in our system and we're sending.
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Jim Mansfield: A lot of pushes every day hundreds of millions.
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Jim Mansfield: We we sell that traffic on CPC some CPA also working with major partners like to hula.
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Jim Mansfield: Buying our traffic, and you know we're international as well me i'm based in Tel Aviv, so the businesses split between Tel Aviv or i'm based in Denver.
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Zach Measures: got.
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Jim Mansfield: About.
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Jim Mansfield: 25 people now.
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Zach Measures: And for someone that doesn't understand push just for a very layman's perspective, how does push look to a user and what what sort of very broadly speaking, is the technology so behind it.
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Jim Mansfield: So push is something embedded in the browser.
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Jim Mansfield: mainly with chrome, but when you.
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Jim Mansfield: When you have a website, you can put a piece of code in the service worker, which allows you to generate a prompt, which is generated through chrome.
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Jim Mansfield: bass, the user, if they want to receive notifications from that website and if they it says allow or deny i'm sure everyone has seen that a million times, but if you click allow then that saves a unique key which allows which is stored.
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Jim Mansfield: On our platform on another platform that allows you to send push notifications but.
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Jim Mansfield: That key allows you to connect with that user, so you don't have any personal information about that user, but you have a unique key which you connect to Google servers and do that you can you connect to the users browser and the message is generated.
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Zach Measures: And that you need.
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Zach Measures: So, to try and that unique key, how do you use that then for understanding what that anonymous user has clicked on in the past and to tailor the promotions that you show to that potential user.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah so when when the user signs up, we can generate a profile that user and it's it's unique to that particular browser so.
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Jim Mansfield: We don't necessarily enable the link if you if you subscribe to a website on your desktop and on your phone that doesn't necessarily link as those are different browsers.
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Jim Mansfield: But yes, we can track the history of those users and what they're doing, and in some cases, if it's coming through a registration flow, we understand some more information about them because they've opted in for push but they've also provided demographic information about location.
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Jim Mansfield: You know income.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, marital status, the date of birth, all that you were clicking on information as well, so sometimes you're able to target them more in depth, based on.
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Jim Mansfield: Other information to provide but doesn't doesn't come from the push but it comes through the registration flow.
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Zach Measures: got it and for publishers obviously this is a source of revenue right you're you're helping provide them with presumably curated demand which they can then get higher ecpm or higher he PCs and things like that.
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Zach Measures: Are there other benefits for for publishers presumably scale is one big thing right the ability to to deal with a lot through scale or.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah one of the main benefits are was it's a way to reach your users after they've left their websites, so if you're an advertiser advertising.
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Jim Mansfield: auto insurance for example you're you're buying media to come to your website, maybe you're converting 510 percent of those users.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, maybe less it depends, but you know, for at least on chrome based browsers for every user that comes to your website, you have the ability to opt into a push notification and typically about 15% of people will opt into that and so and every time you opt in a user.
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Jim Mansfield: You can bring them back to their website, but also the monetization can be worth you know at least 20 cents sometimes more depends on the kind of traffic that's coming to the website, but you get additional value for the media spend that you're doing and it's just.
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Jim Mansfield: it's like when you click you know people in industry collect emails and they and phone numbers and they're monetizing through email and SMS it's another just another component that goes along with the monetization after the fact, when people visit your landing pages.
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Zach Measures: got it and the advertisers that are working with you are they advertising on a CPC basis or CPA or How does that look.
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Jim Mansfield: it's both so this our system optimize it based on.
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Jim Mansfield: You know CPC or as we determine uses rpc revenue per click and also the RPS.
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Jim Mansfield: But we're accepting advertisers on CPC and when they have long history is, are we understand the performance also CPA.
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Jim Mansfield: You know we're very.
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Jim Mansfield: Very performance based, and you know with push like definitely email, you know push you're able to make real time decisions, so you can send a million pushes.
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Jim Mansfield: But the push doesn't you know you have to you know send it with the creative writing using it with email and push you send you send the message and when they view the message you're able to make a real time decision so it's like it's like email but it's also a little bit like.
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Jim Mansfield: gateway or native because.
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Jim Mansfield: At the time, and location, when the user views the Ad is when you can make a decision and allows for a lot more variability that it doesn't email or say SMS because you can send a wide variety of ads and targeting people based on where they're at or.
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Jim Mansfield: You know what's working well at the time.
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Zach Measures: yeah and you mentioned that you did a lot with sort of like lead gen sort of businesses, obviously, like.
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Zach Measures: Evan flow, you know have about 100 odd clients and one thing I always say is it's kind of interesting to see the differences between.
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Zach Measures: East and West, you know you see sort of like Eastern countries, you know getting into sort of crypto platforms and things like this, where that the population has savings that they need to to push into.
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Zach Measures: Various vehicles to either make their money safe or whatever, and in the West, there seems to be an awful lot of.
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Zach Measures: Debt consolidation finance related products and things like that what, what are the main sort of verticals that you're dealing with on the lead gen side and do they vary by GEO.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah they do vary by GEO I think if you look at the US or UK.
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Jim Mansfield: us a lot of financial products just I think the.
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Jim Mansfield: The value of the customers are so high that they can dominate the the Ad spend so.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, insurance products investment products credit cards loans.
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Jim Mansfield: mortgages have been.
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Jim Mansfield: very, very popular we came through coven and during coven.
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Jim Mansfield: destroyed on like jobs or employment or was it the category still is not not as strong as it was, but.
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Jim Mansfield: Those are the things that have been working really well also sweepstakes.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, with push your your usually dealing with a.
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Jim Mansfield: that's a lower intent user you get like that creative with a small you get a small thumbnail image and it up call it six or seven words to to entice the user to click so.
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Jim Mansfield: You get a lot of low intent clicks and.
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Jim Mansfield: They tend to tend to work well or ones that are like.
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Jim Mansfield: A general sweepstakes or even even things that are financial but they had their their back strong sort of registration flows or an advertorial or.
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Jim Mansfield: Like so that's the users to go to like some sort of pre sell page to fully explain the products to people.
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Zach Measures: yeah so, as you said, I mean there's a lot of similarities to native there right.
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Zach Measures: of converting that intent from sort of something peaking someone's interest into intent.
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Zach Measures: And then into those flows, as I understand it, you are basically providing the top of that funnel right, and then you take them to advertisers landing pages that then control those flows is that is that right.
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Jim Mansfield: that's right.
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Zach Measures: So we.
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Jim Mansfield: We also own sites or cells, we have our own websites where we're we're collecting people through our own funnels and we're putting advertisers.
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Jim Mansfield: And those funnels mainly because, like I said we we have a lot of now there's intent when they click but lower intent and sometimes the monetization is better to.
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Jim Mansfield: lead them through a questionnaire or something to sort of understand what they might be interested in, so you can better target the ads if they're interested in a.
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Jim Mansfield: Some sort of loan, or they you know, maybe they just click as they need money you can find out of the you know the interest for for a small personal loan they interested in a mortgage and the interested in home home rifai.
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Jim Mansfield: there's a things you can find out from a survey after like someone clicks on.
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Jim Mansfield: An ad with you know, five or six words are sort of mentioned a financial product and they can get some get some cash but it's good to sort of question what's the best product for them after the fact.
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Zach Measures: got it and so when they come into a site that you own these owned and operated properties, then, do you put them out on like a ping tree to.
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Zach Measures: A series of appetizers or How does that work actually taking that user out to another advertiser or is that or are those owned and operated properties kind of like more of an enrichment sort of environment.
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Jim Mansfield: it's both so we're providing some information we're also trying to optimize into you know, based on what they the information and provide us then we try to show them a series of ads that sort of fit them so we're.
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Jim Mansfield: we're trying to get the funnels kind of narrow because we're.
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Jim Mansfield: Because like you know people clicked on a push they're not usually, when I dedicate too much time, so I just want to find out.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, for example, if they're interested in getting some money do they want, are they more suited for like a quick loan for $1,000 or more suited for you know, a home read to they own a home, maybe a home refinance rifai maybe looking to buy a property so it's a mortgage lead.
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Zach Measures: got it got it and you mentioned like you know UK and US being sort of led by the finance sector you're so well internationally right, are there any other sort of growing trends that you see internationally.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah we're pretty active in Europe, we have.
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Jim Mansfield: Like again our team is here, and perhaps the employees are until a vpn person and the Netherlands and.
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Jim Mansfield: We find them like the French market, the German market UK very strong and the values of the users are really high and.
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Jim Mansfield: I think there's less publishers, they are there that have caught on to push so yeah we're we're growing quick quickly there there's there's more people in the states that are they understand push a lot better.
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Jim Mansfield: But we're we're speaking to many you know advertisers and in Europe and showing them how they can make more money you know kind of like the way to beulah did you know years ago.
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Jim Mansfield: You know they've they've got traffic as they're buying media to there any pages, and this is similar products, and you know and in Europe and might be, you know test drives or there's some financial products there's mobile our next.
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Jim Mansfield: Practice a little bit different, but you know there's a lot of people by media for their ads and push is just another way to get additional monetization and reach to the users that you're already spending money to to get to.
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Zach Measures: yeah got it and you guys having known you guys for a while and.
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Zach Measures: I know you've got like a kind of deep sort of technical pool of people there at notify.
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Zach Measures: Is everything you use sort of internal I mean there's some complicated stuff going on there right with kind of real time bidding and things like that is that all internal that you've built to use other sort of.
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Zach Measures: You know other external things within your tech stack.
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Jim Mansfield: We uh yeah so most of our technology that we're sending push and the monetization that's kind of like you know our bread and butter so we're we have our own technology for that.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, like we we use ever flow because everyone's good at tracking because because, because we have our own websites and.
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Jim Mansfield: we're buying from affiliates and partners and it's a good platform for managing that activity, and I think we sort of we want to focus on what we're good at, and not.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, trying to to build ever flow into our platforms that that that that's not really our focus then you can use a platform like ever flow to do those simple things why focus on your main technology, because we put a lot of work into.
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Jim Mansfield: Improving monetization and.
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Jim Mansfield: optimizing users and that takes a lot of the engineering time that we have.
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Zach Measures: yeah do you use any other sort of third party tools that are useful.
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Jim Mansfield: not really that those are what's core to our to our business and.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, we there's a couple we're looking at to help.
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Jim Mansfield: manage our registration clothes.
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Jim Mansfield: We haven't decided on one because again it's the place where we're putting them all out of engineering time into.
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Jim Mansfield: Managing questionnaires and and courage at ads and things like that, and you know we're looking for ways to use third party.
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Jim Mansfield: applications to do that.
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Zach Measures: yeah cool there's one one trend that we see a lot of and obviously we're a software business ourselves right but I mean we don't try and build like hubspot right we just use the CRM.
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Zach Measures: Because of that, and a lot of people having this kind of more modular approach to using different third party providers to kind of like augment what they're doing.
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Zach Measures: As their core business right because you can just use and drop third party software providers, you know, like a like a balloon on you know sort of on up if you're going up in that house on Disney you know the balloons are just ways of getting you.
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Zach Measures: Somewhere right and those software's can be snapped off as as needed and then so.
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Zach Measures: From from your side, then like what what what's like what do you see like the the future of like push and lead gen sort of in the next six months or so what, what are the big things that you're focused on or excited about in terms of like the market developing and so on.
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Jim Mansfield: I think the market is is quite strong right now I think there's.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah there's issues with the economy and the markets that could affect like the different types of leads we're collecting like I said, like mortgages and.
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Jim Mansfield: refined and very strong but, again, interest rates are rising, I think that could affect the viability of some of those leads, or at least effect how how well it converts because right now converts really well, but the last people want a more goodness, because the rates are too high, then.
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Jim Mansfield: The effective CPA is and our PCs are going to go down to the probably less than the next, but I think other things will.
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Jim Mansfield: will come back and focus, because I had been been in 10 minutes or 20 years the the type of ads they rotate there's different things that are popular.
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Jim Mansfield: You know one cycle to the next, and you know lately it's been all these.
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Jim Mansfield: Insurance medicare loans.
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Jim Mansfield: I think that'll change slightly.
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Jim Mansfield: The kind of see some of those categories overheating right now performances is a little bit down, but I think other things will will step in.
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Jim Mansfield: As in you know when it comes to buying traffic there's always a new, better so and it figures out a new angle to acquire the traffic, then.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, because we're traffic provider.
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Jim Mansfield: Who will just benefit from that once they figure those angles out.
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Zach Measures: yeah.
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Zach Measures: And for like your clients that you know they can obviously.
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Zach Measures: use you as a as a You know, as you said, a traffic provider, we just felt like maybe just touch on the publisher side of you know, being able to monetize a little bit more fit for an advertiser that works with you what what's the real benefits for them.
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Jim Mansfield: Well, I think if if you're if you're buying from affiliates or different traffic sources with different about us is we're a unique traffic source.
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Jim Mansfield: You might be buying Facebook or Google.
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Jim Mansfield: email pushes is a separate category and it performs differently and.
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Jim Mansfield: One thing about reselling our own traffic so it's a traffic that's produced within our own network.
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Jim Mansfield: there's not there's there's not a chance that we're going to.
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Jim Mansfield: Put you in a network where.
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Jim Mansfield: You know there's a rogue affiliate or is it there's a different traffic blend that affect the quality of what you get.
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Jim Mansfield: And then give you learn to understand push and what what the bid on it and and how it works to your.
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Jim Mansfield: to your offer or to your ad and.
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Jim Mansfield: that'll hold true, and you can bid and when the traffic, you know, for as much as we can sell.
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Jim Mansfield: And it, but it does work differently, like it's some people test it out and they they compare it to maybe an email campaign and.
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Jim Mansfield: They don't like the conversions as much but it's just a different price point because an email.
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Jim Mansfield: This potentially like a much longer it had to be reviewed, like if you're selling auto insurance they might see a picture of a car, and maybe some examples of savings, but for us, you know we're gonna get we're gonna have like five or six words to you know.
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Jim Mansfield: save on insurance than Texas so it'll be just a few words and we're just trying to get a quick, so the the presale pages and whatever will be the user into the experience will matter much more coming from push.
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Jim Mansfield: And that's why it is, it is more data because you'll see a lot of the ads and our platform dive into some sort of pre sell page or longer content piece that gets a user into.
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Jim Mansfield: Whatever the advertisers trying to sell.
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Zach Measures: cool and and what What would you say you know, in terms of sort of having two offices and and kind of you know.
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Zach Measures: Bridging that that that sort of gap like what would you say just just generally, for you know people running international businesses you've run a few in the past have you.
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Zach Measures: Have you got any advice on.
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Zach Measures: Any one that we've covered small or large are finding that they're hiring people in different places remote staff trying to manage and international business.
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Zach Measures: you've kind of been there, I got the T shirt on that a couple of times so do you have any kind of you know, top tips or general advice about managing a business that focuses internationally and maybe has a remote staff component.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah so it's it's always difficult it's difficult getting people to communicate well from different time zones in different cultures.
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Jim Mansfield: and different this business we've kept the team smaller you know the previous company for.
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Jim Mansfield: A similar revenue profile, we had.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, double the employees and I think it was much harder to to manage.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah with coded you know we don't even work from home.
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Jim Mansfield: You know, we we've kind of we kind of have two different environments, like the Denver team has been slightly more remote, most of the time, like we didn't have an office in Denver for.
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Jim Mansfield: Most of the time during covidien they've had I think they've been in office for a year now.
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Jim Mansfield: Here we've had more of a physical presence more junior employees and then we've had in.
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Jim Mansfield: Denver, but so it's a good mix here look here we've been able to train people and teach them in Denver we've hired mostly people from our network or people with experience.
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Jim Mansfield: But I mean we have a daily meetings of the whole team is on yeah nothing long a 30 minute call you know, five days a week to catch up.
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Jim Mansfield: So everyone has like some connection between the different offices and there's a bit of a handover because the we're here.
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Jim Mansfield: You know from.
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Jim Mansfield: Early Tel Aviv time to you know we have a meeting at six o'clock with Denver, which is nine o'clock there, so they kind of take over for the rest of the day and we're getting.
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Jim Mansfield: Almost 24 hour coverage there.
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Zach Measures: cool.
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Zach Measures: Excellent well thanks for taking the time to chat.
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Zach Measures: could speak to you, as always, and if people want to kind of reach out to you find the business was also on.
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Zach Measures: What what's the best place to kind of REACH you or your team.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah we're notify ai.io on the web, I think we we built a new website so it's actually.
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Jim Mansfield: We discover ourselves squarely on that site, but you can also find us on.
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Jim Mansfield: social media and Dan.
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Jim Mansfield: Where push notify on instagram.
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Jim Mansfield: On me in me or gym at notify Ai di O, so you can also reach out to myself.
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Zach Measures: cool excellent great well thanks again and look forward to speaking to you soon.
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Jim Mansfield: yeah exactly.